@CSKA_Moscou said in #16:
> - pathology is a medical term, cheating, although it is a filthy and horrible thing, is not a disease strictly speaking. Using such a term for cheating is not accurate.
Agreed. Cheating, itself, is probably not a pathology. It is, however, crystal clear that it is the result of pathologies.
> - cheating is often motivated by the lure of quick gain and the feeling of superiority. It's not an illness, everyone sometimes feels or want to feels like a champion or strong, but not everyone cheats (fortunately!).
Agreed. Cheating has many different pathological motivations. An inferiority complex, masquerading as a perceived need to experience 'superiority', is most certainly one of them.
> - so it's a question of controlling one's emotions. such values can be inculcated in the learning process of the child or person.
Agreed. To a large extent, that is exactly correct; however, with that said, there are also a plethora of antithetical 'learning processes' which can serve as a complete dichotomy to 'control of one's emotions' and make such things much less likely in the latter years.
> - a person can be educated or intelligent but also be dishonest. a crooked banker can be a crook and know how to admire Monet's paintings. the same goes for cheating. a great player is not immune to being attracted to cheating.
Agreed. I think that, for the most part, most of the titled players who cheat just see it as a convenience which they believe that they're entitled to. With that said, there are several pathologies which criss-cross with the matter of "entitlement".
> - therefore, I would say that the action called cheating is the result of several factors, sometimes coming from the person's education, sometimes from their personal values and morals, sometimes from their environment. It is undoubtedly possible to get off this bad path for those who have taken it, but I think it is very complicated.
I wasn't able to draw any causation between education and cheating.
I'm very curious to see your logic on this point?
Definitely, I was able to draw exact causation between a person's propensity for things like integrity, respect, truth, kindness, strength, and other personal values and morals. This is crystal clear.
Definitely, I was able to draw exact causation between environment and cheating. A large part of 'environment' includes whichever pathologies they may have inculcated that encourages, rather than discourages, their misbehaviour and willingness to cheat.
As for getting of the path? One needs only make the choice to value respect for others over the appeasement of what one thinks is their own "will to misbehave".
I think that, when we dig deeper, we find that people who have had booze destroy their lives, both want another drink, and also don't ever want another drink again. I think that one action can easily be traced to their damaged psyche, produced by misbehaviour of others, as well as themselves; and I think that we can trace the other action to the actual person, the actual instance of life and love which is the human spirit being reflected through our bodies.
When we ask which one they ACTUALLY want, regardless of if they take another drink or not, it's completely clear that the part that wants to successfully dry out and join A.A. is the REAL 'them'. This is why people who struggle with alcohol addiction often feel guilty after drinking, but never feel guilty after going to A.A.
Anyway. Great discussion! It's definitely a 'whole thing', that's for sure!
> - pathology is a medical term, cheating, although it is a filthy and horrible thing, is not a disease strictly speaking. Using such a term for cheating is not accurate.
Agreed. Cheating, itself, is probably not a pathology. It is, however, crystal clear that it is the result of pathologies.
> - cheating is often motivated by the lure of quick gain and the feeling of superiority. It's not an illness, everyone sometimes feels or want to feels like a champion or strong, but not everyone cheats (fortunately!).
Agreed. Cheating has many different pathological motivations. An inferiority complex, masquerading as a perceived need to experience 'superiority', is most certainly one of them.
> - so it's a question of controlling one's emotions. such values can be inculcated in the learning process of the child or person.
Agreed. To a large extent, that is exactly correct; however, with that said, there are also a plethora of antithetical 'learning processes' which can serve as a complete dichotomy to 'control of one's emotions' and make such things much less likely in the latter years.
> - a person can be educated or intelligent but also be dishonest. a crooked banker can be a crook and know how to admire Monet's paintings. the same goes for cheating. a great player is not immune to being attracted to cheating.
Agreed. I think that, for the most part, most of the titled players who cheat just see it as a convenience which they believe that they're entitled to. With that said, there are several pathologies which criss-cross with the matter of "entitlement".
> - therefore, I would say that the action called cheating is the result of several factors, sometimes coming from the person's education, sometimes from their personal values and morals, sometimes from their environment. It is undoubtedly possible to get off this bad path for those who have taken it, but I think it is very complicated.
I wasn't able to draw any causation between education and cheating.
I'm very curious to see your logic on this point?
Definitely, I was able to draw exact causation between a person's propensity for things like integrity, respect, truth, kindness, strength, and other personal values and morals. This is crystal clear.
Definitely, I was able to draw exact causation between environment and cheating. A large part of 'environment' includes whichever pathologies they may have inculcated that encourages, rather than discourages, their misbehaviour and willingness to cheat.
As for getting of the path? One needs only make the choice to value respect for others over the appeasement of what one thinks is their own "will to misbehave".
I think that, when we dig deeper, we find that people who have had booze destroy their lives, both want another drink, and also don't ever want another drink again. I think that one action can easily be traced to their damaged psyche, produced by misbehaviour of others, as well as themselves; and I think that we can trace the other action to the actual person, the actual instance of life and love which is the human spirit being reflected through our bodies.
When we ask which one they ACTUALLY want, regardless of if they take another drink or not, it's completely clear that the part that wants to successfully dry out and join A.A. is the REAL 'them'. This is why people who struggle with alcohol addiction often feel guilty after drinking, but never feel guilty after going to A.A.
Anyway. Great discussion! It's definitely a 'whole thing', that's for sure!